Bartholomew: Rome and Constantionple “Sister Churches”

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According to the March 13, 2013 interview that Ecumenical Patriarchate Bartholomew gave to the Roman Catholic news organization ‘Zenit’:

Look, your question about how close we are to the unity of the Church and, in particular, of enabling the Christian Church (Western and Eastern, Orthodox and Roman Catholic) to breathe with two lungs, is important. There is no doubt that our two “sister Churches” are closer today in relation to the whole of the last millennium, thanks to the “dialogue of love” and the “dialogue of truth,” that is to say, the steps taken towards reconciliation and the process of the theological dialogue, which has been well underway in the last decades.

 

Patriarch Bartholomew then lauded the opportunity to take part in installing a Papist cardinal and in the upcoming celebration of 50th anniversary of the meeting of Paul VI and Athenagoras in Jerusalem, saying:

When we were invited to attend the Mass of inauguration of the newly elected Pope Francis in Saint Peter’s Square – the first time in history in which the Patriarch of Constantinople took part in the installation of a Cardinal of Rome – we invited His Holiness to visit us in the Phanar (the See of representation at Istanbul in Turkey of the Patriarch of Constantinople ndr) but also to organize a unitary visit to Jerusalem. This invitation became an informal custom at the time of Paul VI followed also successively with the election of John Paul II and kept also after the election of Pope Benedict XVI. However, the last of our proposals that will be realized – God willing – in a few months, is that of celebrating the historic meeting of the last Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras and Pope Paul VI on the Mount of Olives in January of 1964, the first time in which the Pope of Rome and the Patriarch of the New Rome met face to face since the so-called “Great Schism” of 1054. That event led in 1965 to a “mutual lifting of reciprocal anathemas” and was reinforced in 1969 by annual formal visits of respective delegations, which in 1979 also led to the creation of an international commission for religious dialogue between our two Churches. It is our earnest hope and fervent prayer that the meeting with Pope Francis will reinforce the close relation between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.

 

Originally Bartholomew had planned his upcoming ‘ecumenical council for 2015, which would have co-incided with the false lifting of the anathemas against Roman Catholicism, but, had to push the date back to 2016.

 

 

 

 

 

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Ernest

I thought masons referred to each other as brothers, not sisters…

NFTU

While I assume this is tongue in cheek, it appears the Masons have been somewhat of a mixed bag on female membership. Certainly they’ve always had some sort of female “version”, et cetera.

Darrel Slugoski

There are factions in the Orthodox Church other wise this web site would not exist. As a Catholic I am taught to respect the Orthodox as equal Christians. However without the Bishop of Rome as the rock/foundation there will be no unity among the Orthodox in understanding of what truth really is.

Ra'al Dara

The Lord Jesus Christ is our Rock and Foundation not the pope!

Darrel Slugoski

Peter is the rock. Jesus named him Peter which means rock or Kepha in Aramiac. Paul calls Peter Cephas which is the Greek translation of Aramiac word for Peter. You can also read the early Church Fathers for their opinion.Your response is a Protestent one.The Othodox refer to the pope as the first among equals for a reason.

Ra'al Dara

The orthodox church has never recognized the primacy of the bishop of rome over all orthodox jurisdictions. And from the perspective of the orthodox, the roman catholics are the first protestants.

Darrel Slugoski

Reread the early Church Fathers.Many of the early Church Fathers said many interesting things about the Bishop of Rome I don’t know how you can say they didn’t recognize his authority.
Show me Ra’al any official document of the Orthodox Church which expresses your view point saying Catholic are the first Protestants.The Catholic Church shows much more respect for the Orthodox than this website has shown us.I always stand up for the Orthodox when our Churches are attacked by Protastants.
May God bless you.

HmkEnoch

The Papists are not part of the Church; they are not the Catholic Church, only the Orthodox Church is the true Catholic Church. Papism is an heresy and schism.
Yes, read the early Church Fathers. Fr. Vladimir (Guettee), a former Papist priest who left for the Orthodox Church in the 19th century, was so convinced that the Papist claims were insupportable that he wrote perhaps one of the most definitive works on this: http://books.google.com/books?id=vxQQAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR7&dq=the+papacy+abbe+guette&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fX9JU4T8PJK_sQS3woJI&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20papacy%20abbe%20guette&f=false

Darrel Slugoski

You find one Catholic priest to discount our claim I can point out 1000s of Catholic Priests who would disagree . Again reread the early Church Fathers. Go to Catholic Answers website for our defense.

HmkEnoch

You can also read perhaps the most learned of the Portugese RC clerics, António Pereira de Figueiredo, in his book “Tentativa Theologica” on this subject; especially see the his giving of the attitude of the entire Frankish Church even in the 9th century to Papal supremacy and tyranny:
http://books.google.com/books?id=WRUQAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA117&dq=In+the+year+871,+in+a+Council+held+at+Douzi,+by+thirty+Bishops+of+the+Province+of+Rheims,+Hincmar,+Bishop+of+Laon&hl=en&sa=X&ei=84BJU5_yFIblsATF9oGIBw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=In%20the%20year%20871%2C%20in%20a%20Council%20held%20at%20Douzi%2C%20by%20thirty%20Bishops%20of%20the%20Province%20of%20Rheims%2C%20Hincmar%2C%20Bishop%20of%20Laon&f=false

Or the English Church in the 10th century for that matter:
“”St. Dunstan, Archbishop of Canterbury, being ordered by the Pope to
absolve one of his people whom that Saint had excommunicated on account
of incest, boldly replied to the Pope that he would obey his command
when the offender had rendered himself deserving of absolution by
performing public penance. ‘When I shall see him doing penance for his
fault, I will willingly obey the command of the Lord Pope.'”
(Tentativa Theologica, pg. 106)

Darrel Slugoski

So what , don’t tell me all Orthodox did the right thing in every situation or agreed with each other all the time. I am there has been discention in the Orthodox Church. Reread the early Church Fathers.

HmkEnoch

We do; all the time. They don’t teach Romanist Papism. Christ is Risen! True Orthodoxy is vindicated!

Ra'al Dara

I just reread the Patriarchal Encyclical of 1895 which shows the true orthodox position in relation to the papacy and spells out the errors of the pope. I hope you will read it and understand Christianity in its true form.
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/encyc_1895.aspx

Darrel Slugoski

Thank you for sharing this.

Darrel Slugoski

Bishops would go to the pope when they were deposed for Orthodox doctrine to be reinstated .

Dcn Joseph Suaiden

As a final court of appeal; if people were innocent it was referred back to the governing Synods. Just incorrect.

Dcn Joseph Suaiden

Actually over a dozen Fathers have an exact alternate understanding of your quotes, and after debates with folks like Scott Butler I can confirm more than half your other quotes are in fact misquotes. Read the Fathers, not the bite size Jurgens stuff.

Darrel Slugoski

I have noticed that many of the Orthodox in the US are most likely former Evangelicals who already come into the Orthodox Church with their protestant anti Catholic beliefs. I would sujest that a general Council of Orthodox gather, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to help decide if Patriarch Bartholomew is on track. If your Counsel, which is coming up in 2016, decides that then this website should be shut down.

HmkEnoch

Shut down? Nope. Why would we do that?

Darrel Slugoski

thank you for the websites. I have read the information and it would take me a long time to rebut much of the information but I am a 1000% sure I can do it. I still find the Orthodox overlook other comments of the early Church Fathers and express contested issues of doctrine but express it in a different/similar way. When It comes to truth there are only two churches that have claim to be the true church. All other churches must compare themselves to the Catholic Church to justify there belief systems .We still have the better argument and defense. The Orthodox have the second best defense.

Dcn Joseph Suaiden

If you look at it like a polemical battle you’re looking at it wrong and will never get the full picture of what the Church is

Darrel Slugoski

fare enough, however when this website attacks Catholics, condemns us and uses a polemical approach itself, it invites a response. I have reviewed different aspects of this website and I am not far off the mark. This website or group does not speak for the whole Orthodox Church. It seems to condemns its own Bishops who look at unity in a different light. The only way unity will occur is if God intervenes because both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches see doctrine/traditon as the basis for Orthodoxy and that will be a challenge indeed. Both our Bishops are addressing these issues. There are groups in the Catholic Church who are similar to this group who will condemn Orthodox in the same way. These so called Catholics make me angry as well. Let our bishops work out the details with the help of the Holy Spirit, rather then accusing them as spawns of Satan, which is the way this website seems to suggest.
We should not shy away from debate. I like to stir the pot. Having lived in 34 countries, I see the world in a different light and detest any type of fundamentalism which this website comes across as.
May God bless you Don

HmkEnoch

Fundamentalism is a scare word meant to characterize anyone who takes their beliefs seriously. You should realize that this site does not acknowledged the bishops in communion with the false Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew to be Orthodox, but, to be apostates. We don’t condemn our own bishops, because we don’t regard those bishops (the one you seem to be referring to, i.e., those in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate) as true bishops.

☦Borin-g

You “bless” a lot. Are you a Roman Catholic “priest”?

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